I feel that Robert Downey Jr. is a great actor. I think he is dedicated to his roles. So I believe he will try to make this role as positive as possible. But a bad director and/or writer can kill a great film and performances by entertainers. That’s a fact. Thus I am concerned about what Ben Stiller is going to do, in his role as director. Because I think he is the weak link of every film he has ever been in.
But around the web I’m seeing the argument become, ‘Why can’t a White man play an African American?’
Some comments on it include
“I can totally see the outrage over this, I mean with all the white, young blonde actresses trying to get a break in Hollywood, how could these guys possibly be so racist as to take work away from who could be the next two big starlets of Tinseltown? I mean... um, what?... You mean this isn't all about White Chicks? There was no outcry over the race reversal in that movie?”
and
“How about Eddie Murphy playing an old white man in the excellent Coming To America? Or Eddie Murphy going undercover as a white man for Saturday Night Live? Both classic cases of just having fun, both some of the funniest films or TV moments from Murphy's career. (He was ROBBED at last year's Oscars!!)”
and
“Typical nonsense, the usual double standard. It's the same thing with black comedians ripping on white people, total acceptable, but lets see a white comedian tear into black people and listen to the out-cry. Eddie Murphy has made a career out of playing stereotypes for humor and no one says a word. Whether they be fat, white, Jewish, Asian, whatever, he has done it all and nothing is said.”
I can agree with the concept that acting ability is not limited to any one race. I have no doubt that a qualified and professional entertainer, with the proper tools can portray any race with respect.
At the same time I realize that there is a double edged sword in America. In the name of humor and jokes African Americans have long been ridiculed and minimized. The white actors portraying Amos n Andy, blackface, C Thomas Howell in Soul Man, and so many more are examples of bad representation. And there are those that are sensitive to this fact.
What’s the difference?
A Black entertainer making a bad portrayal of Whites is seen as a failure on the entertainer’s part. A White entertainer in the reverse position (for most of the history of Hollywood) had been seen as making an honest attempt at portraying Negroes, which were considered below them. That’s the history of the situation.
So I agree there is a double standard, and it is a matter of sensitivity. The double standard wasn’t created today, but is based in the past. While many Americans today don’t want to address or acknowledge the openly racist past (nor the quietly racist current day) of America, it does not change the wound that is there or its effects. To be aware of that is not to be alarmist, though some to go to that extreme.
The past cannot be ignored if one wants to make this movie a discussion or comparison of what race can or should play another. And the character that Jack Black has in this movie sounds exactly like a take on Eddie Murphy, so I do see that concern.
But I don’t think that should be the point.
Based on the storyline, and the roles that Robert Downey Jr. has had, I don’t think the intent is bad. But as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Still the movie deserves to at least present its trailers before any conclusions are made.
The question here should simply be are they making a funny movie without degrading to laughter based on, or built upon, stereotypes. Without seeing what has been done, none of us can say.
Yet, to argue that other movies having an entertainer portraying another race and were done well means that all movies with such a device are ok is ludicrous. American memories are very short, and at times willfully so. But everyone remembers pain, and often there are questions asked that are embarrassing.
Like why in almost all westerns were the roles of Native American Indians played by Whites? In older movies Whites also played Asians too. And none of those roles were positive. Is that ok?
I recall when the movie Remo Williams came out. There was a huge outcry when the lead character of Chiun was given to Joel Grey (who was nominated for a Golden Globe for his portrayal). Chiun was supposed to be an old Korean and Grey made the character realistic and was respectful in his portrayal. I see no reason why Robert Downey Jr. cannot do the same thing.
If this film becomes an equivalent of Soul Plane, then all involved deserve to be ostracized. If it is the equivalent of Remo Williams they should be lauded. But to simplify the big issue no one wants to talk about, the elephant in the room so to speak, to they did it so we can too and it’s all ok is to say that Iran should be allowed to have nuclear weapons because France has them.
Not the best analogy but you get my point.
4 comments:
The following responses all com from Black and White Blog, where I am co-author.
Ashcan Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 7:01 pm e
Black-face is ALWAYS racist when done by a white person because of the racist history behind it, it was originally done to demonize and mock Africans as they SUFFERED in American slavery and Jim Crow, thus when whites do it TODAY it conjures up memories of that original intent.
It is a common mistake that whites make to think that BF is limited to jet black makeup ala Al Jolson, but that if a white person is made up to LOOK like a normal Black person with ‘updated’ makeup fx that it is fine, NO, it is STILL BF.
What about White Chicks the film?
White face does NOT equal black face, one has documented racist history, the other does not.
And perhaps the worst thing about this film is that it will resurrect BF and MORE BF films and BF parties on college campuses. and excuse to do so.
Thanks for nothing Hollywood.
Jorge Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 2:01 pm e
You ask for people to understand that double standard here is OK but in your article about the lady in the airport you’re outraged at the double standard. Sorry. Doesn’t work that way.
You either condemn all double standards based on race or you have to accept them all.
It is ridiculous to say that blacks air exempt of criticism or parody because of history but they can make fun of white lifestyles, mannerisms, and looks. Again, either accept the fact that like all double standards, such as those based on gender, racist double standards are a double edged swords and you cannot pick and choose which parts are convenient to you and which aren’t.
Written by Michael Vass
Jorge,
I’m glad to see that you are an avid reader of my posts. I thank you for that and your comment.
It’s important for me to be honest and consistent in what I write. I don’t do this to create shock (though I admit that some of the things I say may shock some readers) or for self-aggrandizement. I speak my thoughts and often comment on the racial complexities that is race in America. So I went back and re-read every post on Tropic Thunder, and my comments about Robin Kassner.
Now you state that I
“…ask for people to understand that double standard here is OK but in your article about the lady in the airport you’re outraged at the double standard. Sorry. Doesn’t work that way.”
In fact my comments about Tropic Thunder are not to accept the double standard but to highlight it. And I did not ask anyone to accept anything, other than the history of the work by actor Robert Downey Jr. has consistently been quality work which is a positive towards a movie that I feel unease about.
“This could be like the absurdity of Gene Wilder in Silver Streak. Or it could be Al Jolson. When you add in the nudge against Eddie Murphy, the undertone is not quite so positive.”
I have no problem with an actor portraying a character of a different race, if it is done with respect and done well. But I also do understand that far too often Hollywood has avoided using highly qualified and available actors of color, insteasd using sub-standard White actors in a manner that is degrading.
“A Black entertainer making a bad portrayal of Whites is seen as a failure on the entertainer’s part. A White entertainer in the reverse position (for most of the history of Hollywood) had been seen as making an honest attempt at portraying Negroes, which were considered below them. That’s the history of the situation.”
The question is the intent of the portrayal. Too often it has been to embarrass or humiliate those being imitated. Too often it has been an act of White privilege to presume they can accurately portray other races, and that their depiction was more than fair. That is where I have conflict.
But in regard to Robin Kassner the issue is how the media portrays reality. This is not a film, there are no characters. The reality is that Kassner was treated in a manner that many Muslims and people of color have experiences since 9/11 in airports across the nation. But instead of taking the same lazie faire attitude that has come from the media, or blaming those persecuted, the major news media has taken sympathy on her plight.
That is a different double standard.
Either Kassner was presenting a danger to the public interest, as was the excuse for the reaction when Muslims and people of color were treated in this manner, or all the other victims were over-reacted against and deserve the same sympathy and funds claimed in her lawsuit.
Whether it’s the presumption of innocence as in the Duke rape case, or the avoidance of the topic like in the Megan Williams case, or the near total absence of fact like in the number of reported missing Black, Hispanic, Asian children in the nation the major media is playing a double standard that is not only unfair but potentially damaging.
When I highlighted that fact how is it the same as questioning the ability of an actor to make a respectful portrayal?
When Eddie Murphy made a portrayal of a White man on Saturday Night Live, was that wrong or funny? I say funny because it was honest and respectful. When Joel Grey played a Korean it was honest and respectful and he got a Golden Globe nomination for it. When the Wayan brothers portrayed 2 White girls it was stupid and ignorant. When Gene Wilder tried the Black face in Silver Streak it was funny because it was an admission of absurdity and the ignorance (stupidity) of some people.
Robin Kassner was either being treated like a threat or abused. There was no respect, humor, social commentary in it. The news media coverage of the event was biased, but in similar events the bias goes in the opposite direction.
How am I wrong to point that out? How is that like questioning if the storyline in a movie is respectful and humorous? How is pointing out when the news media identifies Blacks in chest high flood waters as looters the same double standard as questioning the script a White actor in make-up follows?
Hollywood has long believed that a White actor can portray another race in any manner and it’s ok – which I disagree with. The media has long believed that people of color, especially African Americans, can be portrayed as dregs of society – which I disagree with. I believe my posts highlight those views.
If I am incorrect, please do show me where I was wrong.
Lisa Says:
August 15th, 2008 at 2:51 pm e
What gets me is that fact that black hollywood is at the same time fighting for roles right now! We had to BOYCOTT nbc for them finally to start putting at least a few minorities in roles not regulated to crackheads, and as I black actress I have been told, we only have one slot for an african american, as I watch 100 white actors get the go ahead.
This is SHAMEFUL and a disgrace! Because we don’t talk about this treatment in hollywood does not mean you can ignore it. Please answer that.
SOmeguy Says:
August 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm e
Muslims are not prosuctued in any way in ,fact the media and our governments unlawfully shields them from rightful things , muslims just love using the suffering of other people to benift there goals of a hostile takeover
Lisa,
I don't dispute the figures you are mentioning. In fact I have noted in several posts that only 2% of television contains main characters that are people of color. I find it abysmal.
And when you look at the fact that even behind the camera the numbers of non-Whites working are equally as bad, it's just insulting. The media, especially Hollywood seems determined to ignore fact and present America as some kind of vision of the 1950's.
I don't know what the answer to this problem is, But I imagine that part of it is having more independant films and quality film made by Black directors and crews. Once Hollywood sees the money they aren't making hopefully they will start involving more actors in quality roles. But I doubt it. Sadly.
SOmeguy,
I am so sorry that people with such ignorance still exist in the world. But as I continue to write and receive comments from across the world I've come to understand that prejudiced people are like a weed, hard to get rid of and persistent as hell.
First of all please don't quote as fact items you prefer to believe. While I am sure my regular readers have no difficulty in seeing through such hogwash, I do not wish any of my younger readers to see this and believe, because you comment is on my post, that this might hold a grain of truth.
Since 9/11 Muslims in America had come under a scrutiny that few groups in America share. They have been the victims of mobs and individuals whose minds are too small to do anything but lash out wildly at the closest perceived threat.
Do you actually know anything about Islam? Have you ever knowingly spoken to a Muslim?
Keep this in mind, the same language you use has been used to persecute and/or excuse such actions against Christians, Jews, Lutherans, Protestants, the Orthodox of each religion, Santeria, and every other religion that has existed since the birth of religion. I'm sure that Romans used to say the same thing before they threw Christians into the lion's den of the coliseums.
SOmeguy do me a favor, go read some books and then go speak to people and learn what you are professing to know. Your ignorance is showing.
These are comments found at Black and White Blog, where I am co-author.
andre Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:41 am e
The fact is there are about 13-15% black people in America. So - the way I see it –if that 2% appearance in movies/TV is accurate - we are 1/7 of the way there.
I am black –and sometimes we forget that it doesn’t have to be 5 blacks, 5 whites in an ensemble of 10.
Hollywood is WAY OFF — but we really should reset our goals…
FACT: if there are 10 roles…TWO of them going to black people…is fair based on our %….and in fact TWO out of TEN…has ALREADY over-compensated, based on our population in the USA.
This is a bitter pill I sometimes have trouble getting other blacks to swallow.
But the movie was GREAT, silly, funny, escapist. Nothing ground breaking about the thin plot idea etc– just idiotic, funny stuff
Melissa L. Says:
September 26th, 2008 at 12:25 am e
andre, as a Black female director I can honestly tell you that your percentage in a nations population should not reflect the LITERAL PREFERENCE of fellow directors or producers. They don’t think to themselves “Hmmm, well Canada is mostly white, so I should cast a white actor.” It doesn’t matter. Why? A role is a role. Television shows do not need to reflect anything but what the director and producer want it to reflect. Thus, a Black cop on Law and Order doesn’t need to have a perm and wear is hair slicked back and talk in colloquialisms.
People like Bill Cosby and even now, Tyler Perry shouldn’t have to create HIGHLY EXAGGERATED roles to reflect a different definition of “blackness” in fact, there should be nothing that defines us as a people. We are far too diverse to be confined to any single definition.
Also for this movie; If Stiller see’s nothing wrong with what he wrote and directed he should have wrote in a white or non-Jewish actor that plays a Jewish character and characterizes that character using racist and stereotypical characteristics.
I don’t care about WHITE CHICKS or any other foolish movie people want to grudge up.
if a movie is HISTORICALLY offensive (WHICH IS THE POINT. THIS MOVIE BRINGS BACK AND SHAMEFUL TIME IN AMERICAN THEATRE/ENTERTAINMENT) to you or your people, it is your duty to stand up and speak out. It’s completely stupid and irrelevant to mention other movies as a means to belittle the arguments of others. Period.
There is fun and jokes and then there is just stupidity done to make an extra buck. And whats all the more shameful, these are people who are very wealthy and could make movies with more substance.
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